ABOUT THE BREED

​At Forrern Dobermanns, we breed with one rule in mind: No compromise. Structure × Drive. That means we respect the past, understand the genetics, and don’t buy into hype — whether it’s coming from showline purists or old-school working dog gatekeepers.

There’s a lot of noise out there. Especially when it comes to the difference between "show lines" and "working lines." But here’s a truth no one likes to talk about:

Whether your Dobermann comes from a conformation champion or an IGP3, FH2, ZTP V1A beast — they almost all trace their male line back to the same dog.

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🧬 The Tail-Male Line: One Dog to Rule Them All

The tail-male line is the father → grandfather → great-grandfather chain. That line carries the Y-chromosome, passed unchanged from sire to son.

So why is this important?

Because the overwhelming majority of Dobermanns alive today — show, sport, or anything in between — carry the exact same Y-chromosome, and it comes from one foundational sire:

Muck von Brunia

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📜 Who Was Muck?

Muck was the 1932 German Sieger, imported to the U.S. shortly after his win. He became an American champion in less than a month and left behind multiple Sieger-winning sons, including the legendary Troll von der Engelsburg, who sired over 280 litters in Germany.

From Troll, the line exploded — through show dogs, working dogs, and everything in between.

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🔥 Still Think Working Lines Are Different?

Let’s talk about Ali von der Langehorst.

Ali is a name that still echoes in working-line circles. Known for:

• Extreme hardness

• High aggression threshold

• Full drives and conflict-ready temperament

He’s respected — even feared — in pedigree conversations. But let’s be clear:

Ali von der Langehorst also traces his tail-male line directly to Muck von Brunia.

His male lineage goes:
Ali → Falk vom Roten Falken → Ajax v. Buchenland → Blitz vom Roter Strom → Troll von der Engelsburg → Muck von Brunia

So the next time someone tells you their working lines are “clean” or “pure” and unrelated to show dogs — check the Y-chromosome.

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🧬 The Truth: Everyone’s Carrying the Same Line

Popular show sires like:

• Baron Nike Renewal

• Gino Gomez del Citone

• Fedor del Nasi

All trace back to Muck.

And so do working titans like:

• Bingo von Ellendonk

• Jano von Bayern

• Curd von der Urftquelle

• Ali von der Langehorst

And if you're in Dobermanns long enough, so will 99.9% of the dogs you touch.

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🧠 Why Does This Matter?

Because when you're breeding — especially if you claim to be preserving the breed — you better know what genes you’re concentrating. Overuse of one sire line, no matter how legendary, reduces Y-chromosome diversity. If we all keep breeding sons of sons of sons of Muck, we eventually hit a genetic wall. This isn't a problem exclusive to show lines or working lines. It's a breed-wide issue. And unless breeders across the spectrum acknowledge it, we’re just running in circles.

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✅ What We Do at Forrern Dobermanns

We work with what’s available — and we work smart.

• We breed for balance, not bias.

• We select dogs that perform and recover, with structure that holds up over time.

• We acknowledge the limitations of the breed and take steps to outcross when possible.

• And we call out myths when we see them.

Because this isn’t about one kennel vs another. It’s about preserving a breed that’s worth fighting for. So whether your dog is titled in IPO, wearing a Sieger medal, or sleeping on your couch — there’s a good chance he’s carrying Muck von Brunia’s Y-chromosome.

Don’t pretend he’s something he’s not. Instead — make him the best version of what he is.